15: Why Fungal Overgrowth Is So Misunderstood | Candida, SIBO, Bloating & Gut Health Myths

Can candida really cause bloating? Is intestinal fungal overgrowth real? Or is it just another internet health myth?

If you’ve been struggling with persistent bloating, brain fog, sugar cravings, or digestive symptoms that won’t improve despite treating SIBO, this episode is for you.

In this episode of Team Gut Girls, naturopathic doctors Dr. Christina Carew, Dr. Whitney Baxter, and Dr. Dominique Vanier separate science from social media myths to explain what we currently know about intestinal fungal overgrowth (IFO), commonly referred to as candida overgrowth.

You’ll learn why fungi naturally exist in a healthy gut microbiome, what causes them to become problematic, why fungal overgrowth can be difficult to diagnose, and why restrictive “candida cleanse” diets often miss the bigger picture.

Rather than chasing quick fixes, this episode will help you understand why asking better questions leads to better gut health.

In This Episode You’ll Learn

• What intestinal fungal overgrowth (candida) actually is
• The difference between SIBO and fungal overgrowth
• Why antibiotics, PPIs, slow gut motility, and immune function matter
• Common symptoms including bloating, gas, diarrhea, brain fog, sugar cravings, and recurring yeast infections
• Why candida is one possible piece of the puzzle—not the whole story
• How practitioners think through fungal overgrowth when testing isn’t straightforward
• Why restrictive candida diets aren’t the answer
• Whether probiotics can help fungal overgrowth
• The importance of restoring a healthy gut ecosystem instead of eliminating everything
• Questions to ask your healthcare practitioner if fungal overgrowth is a concern

Key Takeaways

✔ Candida is a normal part of the gut microbiome.

✔ Overgrowth is different from simply having candida present.

✔ Symptoms of fungal overgrowth often overlap with SIBO, IBS, constipation, food intolerances, and other digestive conditions.

✔ There is currently no simple, definitive test for intestinal fungal overgrowth, making clinical history and symptom patterns incredibly important.

✔ Gut health is about restoring balance—not creating a sterile digestive system.

✔ Instead of self-diagnosing from social media, become curious about your symptoms and work with an experienced healthcare practitioner.

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Why Fungal Overgrowth Is So Misunderstood

01:01 – What Is Intestinal Fungal Overgrowth?

02:01 – Why Symptoms Sometimes Persist After SIBO Treatment

03:46 – What Is Candida?

05:26 – Why Fungal Overgrowth Happens

08:08 – Common Candida Myths

10:15 – Symptoms, Patterns & Risk Factors

16:57 – SIBO vs. Fungal Overgrowth

20:18 – Testing & Diagnosis

22:18 – The Truth About Candida Diets

26:14 – Questions We Hear Every Day in Clinic

30:20 – Do Probiotics Help?

32:41 – Practical Takeaways

41:56 – How to Talk to Your Healthcare Practitioner

45:49 – Final Thoughts

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Transcript

15: Why Fungal Overgrowth Is So Misunderstood

Fungal Overgrowth Intro

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Welcome to another episode of Team Gut Girls. Today’s episode is about one of the most un- misunderstood topics in gut health, fungal overgrowth. So if you’ve ever searched your symptoms online, you’ve probably come across, endless claims about candida or candida overgrowth, and equally probably just as many people saying that candida is not real.

So we’re gonna talk about what’s actually true, and we’re gonna separate today the science from the internet myths.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: So a lot of our listeners, and even our patients that we see, h- can understand this. So imagine you’ve treated SIBO three times. You’re eating all the right things. You’re following the instructions that your naturopathic doctor gave you, but your bloating won’t budge, and you’ve noticed that sugar seems to make everything explode within minutes, so you’re starting to see a different correlation.

Could something other than just bacteria be involved in your [00:02:00] symptoms?

Why Symptoms Persist

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: So today we’re talking about intestinal fungal overgrowth, what it is, who’s affected by it, how it’s different than bacterial, and why the conversation might be more coming more mainstream. and then we’ll also touch on things like biofilms, which are part of fungal colonization, which is like maybe why you’ve even treated fungus but it’s not gotten better.

and today, actually this morning, I actually had a call with a patient and we were talking about fungal overgrowth in her son. and so he’s on the autism spectrum and he, has been on fungal supports for, I think, almost 10 years, and so he like rotates through different ones. And we were talking this morning about, why aren’t they working or why don’t they work for a longer period of time ’cause she’s really changed his diet and there isn’t really anything feeding it, and his stress levels are pretty manageable.

And we were actually talking about, ironically, histamine, which is [00:03:00] in our mast cell episode, as being, maybe he is more predisposed to like kind of histamine type symptoms and he did some genetic testing that showed that he was more predisposed. And so he’s, he’s not able, he’s not able to share, so he’s, he’s n- he’s non-verbal.

And so we were talking about could we try some histamine type things to see if the fungal supports work better to figure if we could get further down the road. And keep in mind that even though these topics are all separated, lots of times you might be experiencing more than one of these things, and so there, there may be some overlap into both things that we talk about today, but we’ve talked about in the past.

What Is Candida

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: So let’s start with what is candida or intestinal fungal overgrowth? So there’s this idea in med- mainstream medicine that talks about candida being like a tongue thrush or a yeast [00:04:00] infection or athlete’s foot, toenail infection, like a skin fungus, something where we can see it. And this idea of intestinal fungal overgrowth is actually having something on the inside, and that is not always being shown through the skin, but it could be shown through the skin.

And the fungi and bacteria, they naturally live within our intestinal tract in our gut- And they should exist in some type of balance. We do need these. so we need bacteria to break down and make good, strong, uh, helpful, microbiome. And then when we think about fungi, we know that they’re definitely fed by sugar and carbohydrates, but we also know that they help to break down sugar and carbohydrates.

So everything in moderation is always good for us. The problem becomes when our fungal category becomes overgrowing. And there are some things like candida or [00:05:00] small intestinal fungal overgrowth or large intestinal fungal overgrowth or intestinal fungal overgrowth that we might hear, and they’re interconnected.

Some of them like orient to like where it might be in the body. How much of that do we know for sure? It’s really hard. This isn’t something that we can easily test. And so some of this is really about clinical practice and asking good questions.

Why Overgrowth Happens

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: but one of the things that, or my discussion this morning with that, mom was like, “Well, why is this even happening?

Like, where, does it come from?” And so we know that we all are born with some fungal. we might have more because our mother at the time might have had yeast or candida overgrowth, so we might just have inherited more to begin with. maybe there was an instance, I had someone yesterday, where, the mom had been given antibiotics during childbirth, and the child was given antibiotics forty-eight hours after being [00:06:00] born because they had an infection that had been transmitted So we know that child started off life with like sort of this detriment to the microbiome to already begin with.

we know that when things sit more, when we talked about gut motility and the movement of the gut, that ends up being a reason why things, accumulate more is ’cause it’s not moving out in the way that we expect it to. things like digestive issues where we’re having like medications like, PPIs, which are blocking the acid which would typically, break down some of the fungi, or immune dysfunction where our body has an immune system that’s fighting something else and so can’t also keep this piece under control.

maybe changes in stomach acid based on not just medication, but aging. we may have a bacterial overgrowth and we had taken an antibiotic or we had, had an experience where we had to do something to get rid of that bacterial overgrowth, even if [00:07:00] that’s herbal based, and in killing off the bacteria, we have, let other things grow in its place.

I always think about this, our front lawn when we first moved into this house was just weeds. And so one day I like pulled all the weeds out, and literally it was just dirt left. And I was like, “Okay, I’m just gonna like plant grass seed or I’m gonna put down sod.” And we had gone away for the weekend, and we came back, it was all weeds again.

And I was like, “Man, like I did all that work.” but it’s so fast, right? And if we think about that as part of our gut, same thing can kinda happen, is that we remove something and if we don’t replenish or replace it, so we take antibiotics, but we don’t put in the good probiotics, or we’re not putting in those prebiotic fibers, then the most opportune thing is gonna grow back.

And bacteria and fungi are this busy highway, and everything that gets stuck on the busy highway becomes a part of our being that, is part of what we’re trying [00:08:00] to, get rid of, or maybe, not necessarily get rid of in its entirety, but calm down the overgrowth.

Common Candida Myths

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: So we have a lot of myths around candida.

What are some of the ones that you have heard?

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: I’ll start. I’d say the, one of the most common myths is this, I, we’ll call it denial, like candida, it’s fake. And we … You’d really wanna think of this like candida is real, but we’re thinking of it like when given the opportunity, it will overgrow, as in it’s an opportunistic species.

And I really like the analogy there of the garden, right? So when given the opportunity, that whatever that plant was is going to overgrow some of the other plants that are in the garden. So when we think about candida and other fungi, they absolutely live normally in everyone’s, digestive tract.

And the question isn’t whether that fungus itself exists, but the question is whether it’s growing in the wrong place or [00:09:00] in excessive amounts

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: And now the opposite side of that conversation is that, okay, you read about candida, you read the symptoms, which we’ll go through, like bloating, brain fog, all these other pieces, maybe a skin rash, and you think, “Okay, every digestive problem is candida.” Just when we were in school learning about it, all of my instructors were sold on candida.

as you’re probably picking up on the series of this podcast, bloating is complex, and it’s caused by many different overlapping things, and sometimes multiple things at once, right? So our, these symptoms can overlap heavily with irritable bowel syndrome, with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO, food intolerances, constipation, so we’re thinking that motility issue, things are slowed down.

And there isn’t, and with all of these things, there isn’t one symptom that automatically means fungal [00:10:00] overgrowth. We really need to think about what’s going on in the person, how did it lead to this? Do they have those risk factors like long-term PPI use or stomach acid issues, motility issues? but its symptoms are very vague sometimes.

Symptoms And Patterns

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: So let’s go through those right now, starting with bloating, obviously. So abdominal discomfort can be one of them, excess gas, looser stools, diarrhea, nausea, and then that brain fro- fog can be, one of those systemic or additional symptoms that we’re seeing But yeah, so all these things can overlap, and research has found that there’s no symptom that uniquely distinguishes fungal overgrowth from bacterial overgrowth or other common digestive disorders

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Myth number three is that all candida is bad.

And so that’s probably a bit of a misconception as well. So it’s not that we [00:11:00] don’t want to have any of it, and, there’s probably never a way for us to remove any one type of bacteria from our intestinal tract. It’s so complex and so difficult to measure. But we know that, candida does live naturally in our digestive tract.

It’s part of our microbiome. Research suggests that many people, I think it, the number that I saw was, like, 70% of people, healthy adults have fungi in their system. Candida is one of those species. So the goal is never to annihilate everything. We’re not trying to treat the body like, cancer patient where we’re trying to, get rid of their immune system entirely and rebuild it.

We’re not trying to do that. We’re trying to make sure that there isn’t too many weeds in the neighborhood, and can it be one of the residents without overtaking over the, the entire neighborhood in terms of its function. So it, a lot of gut stuff throughout all the talks that we’ve had really [00:12:00] is about finding the balance that’s right for you in your body and the things that are going on.

And so, one of the things we can start talking about, and Winnie started about this, is, candida is symptoms, and certainly a lot of the symptoms that, she recently shared are things that we also see in lots of other conditions that we’ve already talked about that are related to bloating.

And so how do we know if candida is a piece of that? And so I would say part of that is asking, good questions about patterns. And so things like when did this start? Have you had to have repeated courses of antibiotics? and repeated courses might be, one infection that you had to switch antibiotics for because the infection didn’t clear, or maybe that you have, close infections together.

So we have some patients, for instance, that get urinary tract infections every month. are you taking any [00:13:00] medications that would affect digestion or, surgeries that would have affected digestion? do we have any flaring after certain foods? Dr. Whitney alluded to sugar, so sugar might be one.

“Oh, I feel so crazy after I eat sugar or carbohydrates, or I get more itchy.” I have a patient earlier this week that when she eats chocolate, her butt gets itchy. And so we’re like, “Oh, okay, what kind of chocolate is it?” have you been treated for a type of, gut infection, that maybe didn’t get improvement or got improvement for a short period of time?

And then certainly, like some of those things, are we seeing yeast elsewhere in the body? Do we see jock itch? Are we seeing, yeast infections? Are we seeing athlete’s foot? Are we seeing patches of skin that either don’t tan or they’re really rat- irritated? some women will notice under their breasts or [00:14:00] areas where the skin folds, that they’ll get sort of irritation, an issue.

dermatologically, sometimes we see it around the mouth, so we’ll see, lots of, almost like, the Joker lips, where, around the mouth we’re seeing a lot of, redness or irritation. Some people will also get, dandruff in their hair. And when we start seeing something on the outside of the body, I always think about it as it’s something on the inside trying to get out, and our skin is our biggest detoxification tool, especially when our intestinal tract isn’t working very well.

So we’re not getting things out through our stool or through our urine. fungal overgrowth may have this outside component. Someone has, toenail fungus, but it may also have this inside component of medications or things that have happened

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Yeah, that’s really helpful. And certainly, like we’ve talked about, there’s a lot of overlap, right? So this kind of investigative hat that you’re wearing as a [00:15:00] practitioner is really important because we’re seeing all these nonspecific overlapping symptoms with other conditions. so let’s talk about what symptoms actually raise suspicion.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Sure. I would say some of those ones that, Whitney talked about earlier, so like the bloating, gas, discomfort, diarrhea, nausea. So those are always like, something’s going on that we need to investigate, whether that’s fungal or bacterial or otherwise. brain fog is a big one. lots of sugar cravings can be a big one.

So I had a, a little girl at my practice that, we were pretty sure that she had, a sort of this recurring yeast, and her parents couldn’t figure out where she was, like, getting it from ’cause they’d really calmed down her diet. And her dad was, mowing the lawn and found all these candy wrappers outside of her window.

So she had, gotten candy, ate it, and, tossed the wrapper out of the window so that her parents wouldn’t know, but, didn’t realize they didn’t always blow away. [00:16:00] and so some people- Kids are incredible.

I love that. You

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: guys are in for it.

I’m so sorry. Oh,

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: yeah. I also had another little girl that was getting, like, recurrent vaginal yeast infections, and she was, like, four.

and oral thrush, anal itching, worse with sugar, worse with alcohol, worse with carbs, carb cravings. and so they’re not really an exclusive list, right? We can see a lot of those things with other things, but what we’re trying to start seeing is patterns. and like any other GI disorder, often people have more than one.

and so that’s more when we’re thinking about treating someone. Are we giving them also tools that may address this at the same time?

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah. That’s awesome.

SIBO Versus Fungal

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: question, how do you distinguish [00:17:00] or what’s the difference between SIBO, so the bacterial overgrowth, versus this fungal overgrowth?

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah. Basically, they seem like the same thing.

And so when we think about the SIBO testing, which we had talked about in, at the very beginning of the episode series, we talked about how, the test is not always as accurate because we have to think about, who’s doing the test, what’s the information they have, is this the right test for them?

And it would be amazing if we could say, oh, and we can just tack on this fungal piece of the test. But from our understanding right now, we don’t have a gas that we can measure from fungus that really tells us that it’s there. And so I don’t know what you guys do, but in my practice when I see someone with SIBO, I just assume that there’s gonna be some level of fungal there.

And so when I’m thinking about, what are the ways that we can treat it, I’m always including something in there that is, more of an antifungal piece of it. Sometimes those, [00:18:00] types of herbs or antibiotics will, cross over and also address bacteria, and sometimes we have to just add something else extra in.

I think that it’s… They’re so similar, I don’t think we could actually really separate them Do you guys do the same thing in practice or do you do something different?

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah, that’s why I like the, like sometimes the Rifaximin or the antibiotic is very indicated and it’s nice ’cause it’s spe- specific to the small intestine

but that’s why we love our antimicrobial herbs too. So using these in combination and switching it up a little bit because they are antifungal and antimicrobial. and it’s not, like Dr. Christina said, not just clearing everything out, which can be helpful

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Yeah, same thing, right? the herbs will have multiple actions, and sometimes they even cross over to, helping with the nervous system.

‘Cause we know with [00:19:00] patients that have dysbiosis, which is, the collective term that their microbiome has shifted unfavorably, often we’re seeing, a s- not o- well, not always, but often we’re seeing, a mental health piece to it, ’cause it can be really distressing. So we wanna calm the nervous system.

So it’s pretty cool. herbs will cross over many different areas, which I find is a little bit different than pharmaceuticals.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: I would say, also one of the things, I don’t know about you, but I see lots of people in practice who have been put on, say, doxycycline for three months for their skin.

and one of the things that I will always encourage them to do is take, nystatin, like an antifungal medication, at the same time, because the patients that don’t, we seem to get this bloating, kind of fungal overgrowth pattern by the time they’re finished the antibiotics or even partway through.

But if we can mitigate it earlier on, we might even be able to avoid it. And so sometimes it’s, a thing that you’ve done for a completely different reason. You’re like, [00:20:00] “Oh, I wanna clear my skin up,” or, “I want to get rid of this tick bite that I just got,” ’cause it’s crazy rampant t- tick season. But if we’re not considering, what are the outcomes of the antibiotic on the other side, we’re setting our patients up for failure.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Mm-hmm.

Testing And Diagnosis

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Which is, a, maybe a good transition into, the diagnosis part is tricky. and Christina, maybe you can talk a little bit more as to, the testing when we’re thinking that somebody may have a fungal overgrowth.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah. So there is some… in some of the research they talk about taking fluid from the small intestine on a endoscopy and be able to test that to see if there’s fungus in it.

But it’s a very, rare situation, especially in Canada. We have lots of criteria for people to get an endoscopy, and so there’s… it’s unlikely that someone who maybe just has a fungal overgrowth from a, [00:21:00] aggressive antibiotic use or something along those lines is gonna qualify for that. Or, is it even necessary?

So I would say generally practitioners use, history, symptoms, clinical experience, response to treatment. So oh, you took oregano on your own and that started you feeling better. Maybe that’s, a bit of a clue to give us an idea of what are the things that would respond to oregano that we might wanna consider.

ruling out other causes, and so that’s why this sort of area becomes so controversial, ’cause it’s not really, black or white. We know that the medical system likes things where it’s, very much like this is here because it is true. This skin scraping says there’s fungus in it, therefore it is true.

And because there isn’t a test yet, it becomes really challenging and sometimes missed or dismissed

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah, that’s tough. But that’s why [00:22:00] we like ruling out other things too, right? Because, the conventional system, and those are the guidelines, and then we could be more confident to start talking about this, or even continue the conversation if we started talking about it initially when you came in, to do something that, yeah, doesn’t have, a black or white answer.

Candida Diets Explained

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: okay, Dr. Christina, what about candida cleanses? And a lot of p- of my patients ask, “Well, do I need to completely cut out sugar during this protocol?”

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah. I think there’s two pieces. So when I give someone a treatment plan where I’m addressing something that might include fungus, I actually have learned, maybe the hard way, is that I try to be really specific about what I ask people to do.

So I ask them to, reduce as much added sugar as possible. So trying to avoid things like Coke and cake and ice cream. but [00:23:00] not trying to cut out all the fruits, unless they’re eating, this massive fruit plate. Then it’s a little bit different. can they reduce some of the gluten out of their diet?

Summer’s a lot easier to do that because we have a lot more variety, and it’s easier to eat things without buns or bread as much as maybe in winter, and so this is maybe the prime time of year. and then can we also look at things that break down and create more glucose, like dairy? And so I a- focus on those three areas.

We also know they’re really inflammatory. We know that they tend to be more higher FODMAPs, so we’re kinda like reducing it down. What I tell people not to do is Google every candida diet on the planet, because what they will end up eating is blueberries and oatmeal. Nothing. Because every single candida diet is 100% different than the next one.

It’s like the FODMAPs plans, Right.

Yeah. You start just … Or histamine plans. You start, and you’re reading one, and you’re like, “Well, this one said I cannot eat apples, but this one said I can.” And so what ends up [00:24:00] happening is we get in these, extreme diet situations, and I have had patients that did this, or patients that came in and said, “I did this extreme diet for six months, and then I ate some chocolate,” or, “I had my birthday party, and then everything came back.”

the diets aren’t getting rid of the bacteria, they’re just reducing the replication. And there are ways that i- in anything, like if you had a strep infection, we wouldn’t want the strep to continue to replicate as we’re trying to clear it, so this is no different than that in terms of we’re trying to reduce the replication of it.

But we’re also not trying to make you crazy, and not feel like you can eat anything or feel anything safely, because we did talk about earlier in one of our other episodes about how some of these extreme diets really can cause, more long-term food issues. And so trying to be really moderate. So if- If you are doing something to get [00:25:00] rid of fungus and someone asks you to remove absolutely every food or follow these eight diets, it probably isn’t going to help you any more than, doing some of the things that are the big categories.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: And I know we’ve talked about, I think, in at least one other episode, is, like, when we just reduce, reduce all of our foods and try to, achieve, quote, Candida zero, Candida’s smart, and so they will start to eat other fuel sources, which ends up being, like, the mucus layer in our intestine, and that can lead to further issues down the road.

So the point of all this is, yes, diet can help, but also we’re trying to create an ecosystem where all of the species are thriving and not overgrowing.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: And if you have, visceral hypersensitivity and you go to Candida zero or, you’re not… You have, low FODMAP, no Candida, you’re not feeling anything, that feels [00:26:00] normal all of a sudden.

So when you start to treat it and things start moving again, and there is normal gas production and, but it’s still technically normal, then you could think it’s abnormal. So there’s a bit of a dance.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah.

Clinic Q And A

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: So maybe we can have a little bit of a discussion about, some of the questions we get asked in clinic, and, just make sure that our listeners are all on hopefully the same page.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Okay. I’ll go first. question one: Why does candida get blamed for everything online?

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: I think it’s like what Whitney said.

I think it’s like a lot of people learned about it in school as being the sort of v- the thing that caused everything, and so it’s a very common thing to go to. I would say, lots of nutritionists and dieticians are probably in the same boat as naturopathic doctors, is that, [00:27:00] you know what you know.

And so if you haven’t tried to- … broaden or expand anything, you go back to the thing that you were always told, right?

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: And it’s clickable. If there’s, a list of symptoms that all mean something, and then that leads to their email list that you’re signing up for, and then you’re buying a candida diet, you gotta follow through and see what’s going on the other end.

Yeah. And I was guilty of this when I started a practice in my social media page. I’m like, ooh, yeah, all of these… people interact with that a little bit easier, ’cause they’re like, “Ooh, I have that.”

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Yeah. Yeah. People want a

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: thing. It’s

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: fancy. It’s fancy, and it’s easy. It’s easy, right? Oh, I can point to it.

Yeah. I have this thing.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Yeah.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Okay, I think we talked about this a little bit maybe. can healthy people have candida?

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah, for sure. So- Everyone has it Yeah. I don’t think it’s about health or not health. It’s about, excess. So everyone can [00:28:00] have excess of anything, right? You can have an amount of laundry that is very manageable to do, and you can have an excessive amount of laundry to do.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: That’s not a fair analogy. I

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: have three kids. Everything comes in excess.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: There’s an entire room dedicated to laundry at my house right now.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: I know. Yeah, I’m in excess. But, anything in excess feels overwhelming. But anything in, moderation feels manageable. We can have an excess amount of stress that makes us not sleep at night, or we can have an amount of stress that we know how to manage.

and so f- any- I think any gut stuff, there is a normal amount of bloating. We have an episode about that. There is a normal amount of stool moving or a normal amount of air coming out of our bodies. yeah, there is a normal amount of candida. What that is or how do we quantify it, I don’t think we know.

but we certainly know that it has some benefits, not just bad things.

I always have people say, “What if I just eat one [00:29:00] piece of cake?” Or, “What if I just have one, mocktail? will this, will this cause me to have candida?” What do you tell those people?

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: No, it’s not just this one food that somebody has had, right?

You wanna think of it more broadly like it’s the system. There’s something going on with the system that has shifted when somebody has the candida overgrowth. One piece of cake may aggravate them, but it’s not a causative thing. So we wanna take a little bit of a step back from that type of thinking.

Yeah. Which I think also may help people, because then it can relax, their food choices, too. which is important, right? ‘Cause we wanna maintain a positive relationship with food and be able to have a piece of cake when we wanna have it.

How about this? should everyone avoid sugar forever?

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: I think that goes, right into what you just said, Dominique, is, not demonizing the food and looking at it from a broader [00:30:00] perspective. I think it’s good to ask how you feel after you eat that piece of cake. did you feel exhausted?

Did you feel brain fog and bloating and uncomfortable for the rest of the night? what did you eat that evening? Did you have a glass of wine with it? Were you snacking on all the things prior to? like what is the broader context of it?

Probiotics And Fungi

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Okay, and finally, can probiotics help candida or fungal overgrowth?

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: I actually find, so I may be on my own on this one, but I find that a lot of time because people take probiotics as this, fix everything solution, that we know that some probiotics, for instance, in bacterial overgrowth, actually make things a bit more fed.

And I would say that often when people take probiotics, they get lots more gas and bloating. Some of that might be helpful gas and bloating, some of it might [00:31:00] be harmful gas and bloating. And we certainly know Candida has a relationship w- which we think with Saccharomyces species. And I always think of that, take, the plant out, take the weed out, put the grass back in, put the Saccharomyces back in.

but I don’t know that it’s the only one. what are you guys finding in the probiotic space?

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: I’d say it’s a pretty nuanced conversation, right? from a mechanistic standpoint, we know probiotics can crowd out other species, and then lead to, a positive symptom improvement, whatever we’re trying to achieve.

But another important point is, somebody who responds to one probiotic may not respond to another. Somebody who doesn’t respond to one probiotic may do really well with another. And so for patients that actually really do have, an over- a fungal overgrowth is sometimes there’s a trial and error that may need to happen, or sometimes probiotics are just not gonna help them at all.

that has been at least my [00:32:00] experience in this.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah. I’m often asking how does, how do the probiotics make you feel? Better, worse- don’t feel anything at all? How do these, prebiotic foods make you feel? Where, and then it helps guide where we start, where they’re at- what they’re there.

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: And like we talked about before, we can’t always tease out, a fungal overgrowth from a histamine issue.

And we know some patients with- histamine, again, if they’re reacting to a probiotic, it may not even be the Candida. It may be, like, something else going on. Yeah … so it’s really about looking at the whole person, I find Okay, maybe we can talk about some practical takeaways.

Practical Takeaways

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: So I think an important point, i- for our listeners is if we think we have a fungal overgrowth, try not to self-diagnose, especially from social media like TikTok.

The internet really does love, simple answers, simple solutions to complicated problems. And like we’ve talked before, we, [00:33:00] at least I have mentioned that the digestion feels like the Wild West sometimes. so gut health really works in this, simplistic way. So maybe if we can reframe this a little bit, we wanna be curious and not fearful.

The internet absolutely loves certainty. and so if somebody is bloated, for example, the internet may say, “Oh, it’s candida.” if you’re tired, it’s candida. If you crave sugar, it’s definitely candida. But, for example, somebody may actually have a blood sugar dysregulation and have all of those things happening at the same time.

So certainly getting some blood work done would be a, good first step. and we wanna think about our body as a little bit more complex than those examples. So instead of becoming fearful every time we experience a symptom, think of it like, “I’m curious.” And that can also help in a way with, the way the brain communicates the gut because we’re responding from, a more calm nervous system.

so and [00:34:00] we wanna think about starting patterns, noticing patterns too. And that, for example, would be, thinking about when symptoms happen. Are they worse after certain meals? Could they be connected to stress? Did you have a stressful day? Are you noticing an aggravation? Did they start after a course of antibiotics?

And this can be any antibiotics for any length of time. are they getting progressively worse? Do they come and go? Those are all important patterns that can help both you and your practitioner. And so when we think about things more from curiosity, that’s gonna give our healthcare practitioners really valuable information.

And, fear often sends us chasing quick fixes that don’t actually address the real issue, and sometimes we can even do more damage if we’re really, traveling down that, that path. So we wanna think about digestive symptoms, like there are multiple possible causes. Like we’ve talked about, sometimes there are [00:35:00] overlapping issues happening.

and some people with chronic gut issues may have, a bacterial overgrowth, a histamine issue, a fungal overgrowth, something else going on. So that’s why it’s important to do the due diligence, work with somebody who can help, and, avoid jumping to conclusions.

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: And I really like what you just mentioned, is like switching your brain to being more curious, that, and how that calms your nervous system, and you can just be more of an observer instead.

‘Cause we can be really in our heads and in our bodies about it, and fearful, which is scary, and then we tend to latch on, or try to latch on all these answers, where it could be more complex than that. So I thought that was really good to reiterate. And then you mentioned the patterns too. So we always get our patients to do this, and I think in every episode we’re getting our listeners to do this, is really start tracking your symptoms.

in a previous episode we talked about hormones, so tracking it with your cycle. tracking if that piece of cake made you feel bloated and brain foggy, and what [00:36:00] else did you eat that day? Timing, bowel habits, bloating patterns, bloating timing, bloating location in your abdomen, so high up, middle, or lower down.

Are you noticing itching too? Are you noticing rashes? Dominique just mentioned that antibiotic history, what medications, proton pump inhibitors. So we will always be asking you this. So then, and sometimes patient get annoyed when we’re asking onset questions over and over, ’cause we’re so curious, but getting me more curious about timelines and when this started, and what else was going on.

Because these symptoms are clues. It’s not always black and white. I always say every body is different, so we have to get curious and be, open-minded about all the possible things that could be going on. And one of the biggest mistakes we can make is assuming a symptom equals a diagnosis. We might be chasing something that could make things worse down the line if we’re not considering all possible [00:37:00] options.

Bloating, gas, constipation, diarrhea, or brain fog are your body’s, check engine lights. It’s letting you know that something’s off, something isn’t quite right, but it’s not specific. So it’s not telling you exactly what it is, which is super annoying sometimes, and overwhelming. so we have to be curious and think about these symptoms as puzzle pieces.

How one piece on its own doesn’t show you the whole picture. You need the surrounding pieces, like your medication, your lifestyle, your diet, your medical history, your stress, your sleep, your social interactions, your work. Are you starting school? Are you in the middle of your master’s thesis? All of these things really, show up in the body and in this ecosystem too.

So instead of asking what supplement treats bloating, ask why am I bloated in the first place? This question will lead to much better answers [00:38:00]

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: Yeah. Looking at it from a biopsychosocial model, it’s not just about take this pill, see you later, you’re gonna feel better. We have to look at the entire person, how they interact with their environment, and also what’s going on internally.

I think a third takeaway is really about the person’s history. And what I mean by that is, if they maybe have tried to do, repeated treatment for SIBO, the small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, without lasting improvement or possibly without any improvement, it may be worth switching gears and discussing the fungal aspect or a fungal overgrowth.

Definitely with an experienced practitioner would be m- least my recommendation. but also not assuming that’s the answer either. So again, this curiosity element rather than a I know, I know that this is the answer. Gut health really is about balance. It’s not about going down the rabbit hole of eliminating, [00:39:00] things, whatever species we’re trying to eliminate.

And I would say this is probably one of the biggest mindset shifts that can be helpful for people who have, chronic long-standing dysbiosis. So our goal really isn’t to create a sterile gut. That is absolutely not what we want. it’s really to create a, a, a resilient one. And when we talk about, what a resilient gut is, that r- that is where we have diverse species and many species.

And so when we’re talking about, food choices is we know from the research that people who are eating a very diverse diet tend to also have a diverse microbiome. the foods and the different types of foods that we eat are very protective for us. and, when it comes to our digestive tract, it’s home to trillions of bacteria, fungi, viruses, like, other organ- other microorganisms that all play a role in keeping, both our gut healthy but our entire body healthy.

And so when we hear words like [00:40:00] candida, our, the instinct may be, “Oh, I need to kill it.” but health is absolutely not about wiping everything out. Like we talked about, it’s the environment, it’s restoring balance. and you think about our n- our environment around us and nature, and that itself is about balance.

There’s a role for every plant and every species in it, and the gut is no different

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: And that’s why we say to, eat the rainbow. Get out there in the gardens with your hands, and get in the soil, and really eat things in season, and switch it up, all the different colorful fibers. Instead of just shopping in, the aisles of the grocery store, try to diversify your ecosystem.

okay. So another takeaway is gut health is rarely about one organism. It is this ecosystem and restoring it as a balance. So candida isn’t the villain. That bacterial overgrowth isn’t the villain. And it’s tempting to look for one thing to blame or find that list of [00:41:00] symptoms online and click it and, think that’s what’s going on, even though it can be.

so if I can just get rid of candida, all my problems will disappear. But in our clinical practices, it’s not that easy. I really wish it was. so one person might have all of the above. So slow gut motility, a history of antibiotics, has been on proton pump inhibitors. They have a lot of food sensitivities.

They have chronic stress. Don’t we all? Hormonal changes, fungal overgrowth. These are all… This could all be included, so where do we start? gut health is usually a story with multiple chapters, not just a single villain, and that’s why good practitioners are more curious what organism is present. They ask why did this environment allow that organism to grow in the first place, or overgrow in the first place

Talking To Practitioners

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: So as always, we try to give you some ways to talk to your [00:42:00] practitioners about, the things that you might be experiencing or if you’re curious about is this a piece of your puzzle.

And we know that people are prone to dismiss candida as a, a possibility. and calling it intestinal fungal overgrowth actually sometimes helps. but it may also be going into the situation and say, even though we’ve tried these other things, could there be another explanation for the bloating that I’m experiencing?

You know, you might not remember, but we had that time when I took all those antibiotics from the dermatologist,” or, “I had taken that PPI for a period of time. is fungal overgrowth something that I should be worth considering,” or, “How would w- how would you decide when treatment is appropriate?”

So kinda asking them in a way where you’re giving them the information. I would say, laying the seeds out and hoping that practitioner that you’re seeing will help. [00:43:00] the goal at Team Gut Girls is always to help you ask better questions, and we want you to, feel empowered, and sometimes it’s really hard not to wanna go into your, appointment regardless of what the practitioner is and say, I definitely have candida.”

Because as soon as you’re so certain about something and the person that you’re seeking advice from doesn’t feel like an expert anymore, they’re very bound to shut you down, even if you’re right. it’s because a lot of this is really about relationships and dynamics, and so if you can position it in a way, no different than when you were a kid trying to convince your parents to let you ride the bike further down the street, you’re not like, “I can do it,” you’re like, “Well, I went this far with you before,” or, “I did this with you before, and therefore this might give you some more confidence.”

So it might be saying, I have had a history of toenail fungus or yeast infections. I [00:44:00] have had a… we did treat using this type of antibiotic for this skin rash that I was having. maybe this is a piece of the symptoms that I need to consider.” So how do you help the practitioner in front of you, try to h- investigate more instead of just, becoming focused?

And even if they come up with something and it isn’t candida, maybe it’s given you an opportunity to start that conversation and remind them of some of the things that have happened. We all see lots of patients. We do our best to remember everything we can about you, but we might’ve forgotten that when you were 15 you took a whole bunch of antibiotics for your acne.

But you reminding us is actually really helpful

Dr. Dominique Vanier, ND: I will just say remind me. Remind me about, right? ‘Cause I, yeah, it’s true. There’s, we do see- Yeah … a lot of chronic and complex cases in practice, and so having those reminders is helpful. A- [00:45:00] and I think that’s what I love so much about these conversations is r- they’re not about giving people another label to worry about.

They’re about helping people really understand their bodies a little bit better.

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: Yeah. Our goal isn’t for people to become gastroenterologists. Frankly, we don’t wanna become gastroenterologists. we want people to investigate and understand how their health works more and not feel like there are only miracle treatments out there, and if the miracle treatment didn’t work, then, their life is, forever more full of bloating.

That there are lots of, different reasons that you might be experiencing this, and having meaningful conversations with your healthcare provider or finding a healthcare provider that lets you have those meaningful conversations is really helpful.

Final Recap

Dr. Christina Carew, ND: And remember fungi occurs naturally in our gut.

Overgrowth is different than having just a normal amount. lots of the symptoms overlap with other gut [00:46:00] conditions, so it’s not always very clear-cut, which means diagnosis can be a challenge. the internet has lots of things that make us think that the only way to heal ourselves is by restricting, restricting, and we know that’s not gonna help.

and you wanna look at someone who takes your information and considers it, but then also looks at the broader idea. They’re not just “Yes, you ha- you do that. You want that. I’ll just give it to you.” you want them to have a meaningful discussion with you about whether that is or isn’t the case.

And that’s really what we are all about and helping you to get more information to ask better questions. So thank you for joining us

Dr. Whitney Baxter, ND: Yeah. Thank you so much for tuning in on another episode of Team Gut Girls. and we really hope you had some… You were become more curious, and you’ve had some more questions answered in terms of fungal overgrowth or candida, because better [00:47:00] gut health changes everything